Monday, March 22, 2010

Orks revisited...again

Hey, let's talk about 40k for once, eh?

It seems like all I do is reimagine my Orks, must be me trying to find that needle in the haystack of suck :/

I do so love my Battlewagons, they're the best transport Orks have available. I know it's not saying much compared to Trukks and Looted Wagons, but I'm a fan of the BWagon. Good frontal armor, reasonable cost, and even with open-topped they can usually last long enough to drop off their cargo. KFFs are essential as always.

I had been using Shootas and Sluggas in Wagons, but they really haven't been working out. Sluggas always have the same problems: they die too easy and get pwned by anything that charges them. I've been using a Warboss to give them some extra punch, but they always end up dying and he goes solo. Shootas were originally a midfield unit, riding up in a BWagon and gunning down infantry. They put out impressive fire, but they just don't have the versatility I've come to expect from my marines. All they do is kill infantry, and I'm pretty sure I have units that do that already. I can just stick Grots in Wagons if I'm gonna sit them at midfield. I can use the extra points to get more essentials (Lootas, Buggies), plus I can buff the Wagons with 'ard cases and use them as cheap diversions.

Nobs are always solid, they will punch out just about anything that comes their way. TH/SS Termies are my biggest concern, which is why I've gone for more normal Nobs to absorb hits and maybe kill some before they can swing. It takes 13.5 attacks to average 1 dead Terminator (compared to 5.4 PK attacks), so maybe that won't work so well. It's easy to spend tons when putting together a Nob mob, so you've got to find a balance between killyness, 'ardness, and cost. For me, 6-8 Nobs with 2-3 PKs with requisite Painboy and Waagh! Banner works well enough.

Here's 2000 points I'm thinking of using now

HQ
Warboss w/ powerklaw, cybork body, kombi-skorcha
Big Mek w/ KFF
Elites
6 Nobs, 2 PKs, Waagh! Banner, Painboy, cybork bodies, 2 kombi-skorchas, 1 bosspole, Battlewagon w/ deff rolla, big shoota
(These are set up so each Nob is indivudual, so PK+pole, PK+skorcha, Painboy, Waagh! Banner, kombi, normal)
2x 13 Lootas
Troops
6 Nobs, 2 PKs, Waagh! Banner, Painboy, cybork bodies, 1 kombi-skorcha, 1 bosspole, Battlewagon w/ deff rolla, big shoota
3x 11 Grots
Fast Attack
2x 2 rokkit Buggies
Deff Kopta w/ rokkits, buzzsaw
Heavy Support
2x Battlewagon w/ 'ard case, big shoota, deff rolla
3 Kannonz, 3 runts, 4 krew

That's 2000. I've got 2 Wagons full of Nobs with the Warboss in tow as the heavy hitters. They aren't the beefiest out there, but rather than field 1 death star in a relatively flimsy ride I went for 2 smaller units for redundancy. The Warboss usually rides with the Troop mob to give them some extra protection from S8+ and assaults.

The Grots jump in wagons and ride up with the Nobs, using their sturdier armor to protect them and draw fire with the threat their deff rolla present. I was considering giving them kill kannonz, but 120 points is a lot for 2 S7 pies. It would give them a higher profile and could do some damage, but I'd rather have that extra scoring unit and the kannon battery.

For shooting I have 3 static units, 2 Loota mobs and 1 battery of kannonz. 26 dakkaguns and 3 kannonz with runts should be sufficient to ding enemy armor. On top of that I've got 4 buggies with rokkits to provide mobile S8, LoS blocking, buffers, and funsies. The Kopta is for a hopefuly alpha strike, otherwise he'll just zoom around being obnoxious and charging vehicles or crisis teams.

So, compared to my older army I've lost 20 Shootas and 19 Sluggas in exchange for 20 Grots, Nobs, and Kannonz. I think it's a bit better, what say you?

18 comments:

The_King_Elessar said...

I think you're flogging a dead horse, which is a shame. I'd quite like digging out my own Orks, and finishing off my Nob Bike and Loota Konvershuns... :(

freefall05 said...

Id feel alot better with 30 total lootas. seems to be their magic number.

Chumbalaya said...

TKE, It does seem Quixotic to try and make Orks work. I'm gonna give them one more shot with a couple ideas, and if they aren't feasible $-wise I'll just let 'em chill until a new book comes and de-sucks them.

freefall05, I do like lots of Lootas. The reason I put up 13 per unit was to save points and keep that magic number for break tests. If I had my way I'd probably have 39 and use Wazdakka + bikers, but it's just not doable $-wise. Still, with the buggies and kannonz I think I have more options for AT.

The_King_Elessar said...

True dat brutha from anutha mutha.

Wazz and his Flying Circus would be a really fun list to use...oh wait...I CAN play it... ;)

MagicJuggler said...

I am planning to use the new Blood Angel Codex as a stand-in for my Orks until then. Blood Axes.

Mercer said...

I think your list is a bit mish-mash and you're having problems sorting.

The HQ and elites are all fine and then we get to the troops. Sure Grots are good for objectives, but having them for majority of troops? They'll get wasted pretty quickly, even in cover. The Nobz troops are cool, but do you really need two Nobz units? These is were your points are going, twice over! I would take one unit and make it your troops choice then.

Fast attack I'd rather take deffkopters all round. With just the one you've got a single threat, it has no support, really, and has no redundancy. I'd rather take all Deffkopters than the 2 buggies, which appear to be in a squad which makes them weaker..

You've put ard case on your wagons which means the assaulty Orks cannot charge out of it. Sure the wagon doesn't get a +1 on the damage table any more but it means those expensive Nobz cannot move 12" in the wagon and then bail out and assault, with that they have a 20" assault range.

Kannonz? Fuck that you've got Lootas :)

Took me sometime to get my Ork list sorted but it's doing well and hasn't lost yet. I've done some extra fine tuning but that's only changing wargear around. Pretty sure you've already seen it..

Chumbalaya said...

TKE, I hate you :P

MagicJuggler, I like that idea, take lots of pics! I was considering doing a Blood Axes IG army, but that's a lot of vehicles to put together. Wait...3 Trukks, 3 Russes, 2 Battlewagons. It could work.

Mercer, 'Ard Cases are for the Grot wagons you silly goose :P Grots jump in the 'Ard Wagons and run up front drawing fire, rolling stuff, and generally being annoying. The last unit hops into reserve or screens the Lootas.

The one kopta is there as a what-if, just in case I can capitalize on poor deployment. I prefer Buggies overall for their extra dakka and not getting locked up in HtH (Hit & Run only works on a 2 or less :/ )

I'll be doing some tests and I let y'all know how it works.

Mercer said...

You putting only 2 units in the wagons? What you doing with the other unit?

Chumbalaya said...

Yep, 2 go in the 'Ard Wagons and the last is on foot to either screen Lootas or go into reserve and snag an objective.

The_King_Elessar said...

They go Mine-Hunting?

lol

<3

Chumbalaya said...

Pretty much, if there were any mines in the game :P

freefall05 said...

DONT UNDERESTIMATE SCOUT BIKERS

Chumbalaya said...

OH SHIIIIIIIII

fester said...

The way I see this you are looking at your Ork army all wrong. They cannot run the same was as a SM list. They dont work like an Eldar list.

You need to pick how you want to run your Ork Army and focus on this. When I run mine (at 1750) I run the following:

HQ:
Warboss, PowerKlaw, Cybork Body, Bosspole
Old Zogwart

Elites:
7 Nobz Squad, 6x Big Choppa, Painboy, Cybork, Bosspole, WAAAGH Banner
BattleWagon, Red Paint, Big Shoota, DeffRolla

Troops:
20 Boyz, Nob w/ PK, Bosspole
20 Boyz, Nob w/ PK, Bosspole
20 Boyz, Nob w/ PK, Bosspole
20 Boyz, Nob w/ PK, Bosspole

Heavy Support
BattleWagon, Red Paint, Big Shoota, DeffRolla
BattleWagon, Red Paint, Big Shoota, DeffRolla
BattleWagon, Red Paint, Big Shoota, DeffRolla

This is a fairly obvious army, dont you think?

Tactics:
CHAARRRGGEE!
Load up whatever squads you can and charge madly at them.
Keep 1 squad of Boyz (probably shootas) with Zoggy in the backfield camping an objective, and throw 4 AV14 bricks at the enemy and charge.

The secret to Orks is:
Target Saturation - I have more of X than you can kill in the number of turns it takes to get to you.
E.G:
Horde
180 boys. I am in your lines in 2-3 turns. If you can cause 180 wounds in 2-3 turns then you win. If not, here comes the pain.

Dreadbash:
(my preferred)
Battlewagon-cum-Stompa (killcannon, 4xRokkit etc), 6x Killa Kan, 2xDreads - under 1000pts
+ 60 odd boys and 2 KFF Meks
I will get across the board, you cant stop me

BattleWagon Spam:
As above list. You cant pop all the armor in 1 turn, turn 2 I get to charge.

Honestly, I thought Orks were the easiest army to write lists for!
Ork Elites are awesome, but too expensive for what they do usually. I understand Lootas kick ass, but note when they are running away.
They seem counter intuitive to the Orks list. It would be like having a squad of guardsmen attempting to charge the enemy in a static shooting line.

Kirby said...

It's like Chumbalaya used my Ork articles or something =p.

Chumbalaya said...

fester, check around earlier posts, that's basically what my army looked like for a good while. I don't think it's particularly good any more.

That's 4 BW barreling towards the enemy, but nothing else. You have nothing to hurt armor, nothing to keep the enemy from lining up side shots on your open-topped AV12 and making them walk. Shootas are cool and all, but all they do is kill infantry. An IG mech army totally dismantles the army because you can't stop them at range and are completely at their mercy. Even a Chimera's multi-laser can do damage with side shots.

Horde Orks have the same problem. I don't have to kill 180 Orks is 3 turns, just enough to blunt the assault and since you have nothing to hurt armor, I can tank shock, block, and push your army around at my leisure. Sluggas, for all the hype, fold like paper against any decent HtH unit charging them (thanks to their superior mobility).

Dreadbash is about the only way to run a foot force, but you still suffer against mech (Kanz with rokkits can maybe pop 3 vehicles). KFF or no, Kanz in a squadron are fragile.

Building an Ork army to crush crappy foot armies and noobs is easy, they are the masters of rock lists. Problem is, good players with good armies can stop rock armies. Building an Ork army that can tango with mech Guard, mech Eldar, any good SM army, Tyranids, and the like is much harder. It's why you need units like Lootas, Buggies and Kannonz, otherwise you can't stop enemy armor/MCs before they stomp all over you.

kirby, I'm pretty sure you were reading my mind when you wrote those :P Good stuff either way.

The_King_Elessar said...

Reading your mind while you stole ideas from my brain, maybe... :p

Kirby said...

Or reading from my little piece of paper in front of me?