Seeking a list critique BT 1k and 1500

Hi Chumbalaya,

I've been something of a fan of yours since your comments on the Leafblower batreps on BoLS.

I'm looking for some input on my Black Templars. I started BT because I wanted a mechanized assault army and so my list building so far has attempted to emphasize that. I'm finding my 1k list is a little hit and miss. My 1500 list has been fairly effective so far, but I'd still love to hear your thoughts on it.

1000 Points

HQ:
Emperor's Champion w/ Accept Any Challenge = 140
Marshall w/ Power Weapon + Bolt Pistol & Frags = 97

Troops:
8 Initiates (bp + ccw) w/ Melta & Powerfist in Rhino w/ extra armor & smoke = 211
8 Initiates (bp + ccw) w/ Melta & Powerfist in Rhino w/ extra armor & smoke = 211
8 Initiates (bp + ccw) w/ Melta & Powerfist in Rhino w/ extra armor & smoke = 211

Heavy Support:
Predator w/ Autocannon turret + lascannon sponsons, smoke = 128

Total = 998

I have the marshall mainly for the Ld10 army wide, i consider that pretty important when I'll be making morale checks every time i'm shot.

My 1500 list:

HQ:
Emperor's Champion w/ AAC = 140
Marshall w/ twin lightning claws + iron halo = 135

Troops:

9 Initiates (bp + ccw) w/ Melta & Powerfirst in LRC w/ extra armor, smoke, dozerblades = 442
9 Initiates (bp + ccw) w/ Melta & Powerfirst in LRC w/ extra armor, smoke, dozerblades = 442
8 Initiates (bp + ccw) w/ Melta & Powerfist in Rhino w/ extra armor + smoke = 211

Heavy Support:
Predator w/ Autocannon turret + lascannon sponsons, smoke = 128

Total = 1498

While this 1500 list has been fairly effective so far, I have been concerned that I'm pretty light on bodies and fairly dependent on the resiliency of the LRCs. However, in the games I've played with this list I have found that the LRCs do strongly tend to survive long enough to get my units with the attached ICs into combat more often than not so I've been hesitant to change that.

Thanks for any comments your willing to share,

Digitalist

Reply:

Hey thanks, it's always nice to hear people appreciate my ramblings.

I'll be perfectly honest with you, I don't play BTs, never have, and haven't gone up against them often either. I've got a copy of the book and I've flipped through a couple times, but that's it :P I'll see what I can do, but I'll be going from a generalist/vanilla SM standpoint. Stelek would probably be better for giving you BT specific help.

At a glance, the BTs don't really seem to suit themselves to the mechanized style beyond spamming LRCs. Generally, vanilla are going to do mech better by virtue of their cheaper vehicles, troops, and the availability of heavy weapons. BT can do the foot horde quite well thanks to their Righteous Zeal.

At 1000 points, another Predator would probably help more than a 3rd Crusader Squad. With a mech army you generally want to shoot lots while your Troops stay nice and safe in your ride until it's time to hold objectives, BTs would be able to do all that plus when they pop out they can actually reach out and smack you upside the head.

Perhaps something like this:

Emperor's Champion-Accept Any Challenge

Marshall w/ power weapon, bolt pistol

5 Initiates, meltagun, powerfist, 3 Neophytes, Rhino w/ extra armor, smoke launchers

5 Initiates, meltagun, powerfist, 3 Neophytes, Rhino w/ extra armor, smoke launchers

Land Speeder w/ multi-melta, heavy flamer

Land Speeder w/ multi-melta, heavy flamer

Predator Destructor w/ Heavy Bolter sponsons, smoke launchers

Predator Destructor w/ Heavy Bolter sponsons, smoke launchers

998.

You only have 2 Troops, but you have a lot more mobile firepower elsewhere to remove threats to them. If the Rhinos get popped, you've got a bunch of frothing maniacs running at people, and 4 armored vehicles to contend with. It's kinda like vanilla marines, only their Troops can hand you your face in assault.

For 1500, the LRCs give you some much needed durability and give your assault units a good chance to get stuck in before they get shot up, so that's nice. What you need beyond those are the means to nail armor, namely knocking out transports so your Crusaders have a nice tasty snack to munch on. Dakka Preds and MM/HF Speeders are your best bets. Tank hunting Sword Brethren Termies can work, but they're just too pricey considering you have 2 LRCs. It's very much a rock army, relying heavily on a super unit or two so much that it actually takes away from the rest of your army.

Emperor's Champion w/ Accept Any Challenge

Reclusiarch

2x 6 Initiates, melta, powerfist, 3 Neophytes, LRC w/ extra armor, smoke

2x 5 Initiates, lascannon

2x Pred-AC, HB, smoke

1499.

You have the 2 doom units, plus 2 cheap scoring units and some good firepower at range. AV14 may cause you problems, especially considering your melta is concentrated in your big bullseye units. We've got the Reclusiarch over the Marshall because we don't want your weapons batteries rushing headlong into the enemy, that tends to get them dead. Between them and the Preds you can nail light armor, plus you have the ACs and melta from your rock units.

So, those are my thoughts. Like I said I'm not too experienced with BT so take it with a pinch of salt. Generally though, when constructing your army you want to keep in mind some major things:

1) Dealing with infantry

2) Dealing with armor (light and heavy)

3) Protecting your troops/ensuring you can win the mission

4) Reducing the impact crazy luck can have through redundant unit selections, re-rolls, and the like

Hope that helps.