Sunday, August 1, 2010

Beginner Daemon Help

E-mail in:

Hi Chumbalaya,

I've been reading posts on here and elsewhere for help in building my first Daemons list, and this is what I've come up with for 1500pts :-

Lord Of Change 250

Bloodcrushers x3 w/Fury, Instrument 135

Bloodcrushersx3 w/Fury, Instrument 135
Fiendsx6 w/Might 190

Plague Bearers x5

Plague Bearers x5
Plague Bearers x5
Plague Bearers x5

Daemon Prince w/MoT, Bolt and Gaze 160

Daemon Prince w/MoT, Bolt and Gaze 160
Daemon Prince w/MoT, Bolt and Gaze 160

Before I start buying models though, I'm slightly worried about it. Firstly it's a bit slow - only the LoC and the Fiends have any mobility, and shooting is a bit meagre - only four Bolts.

With Daemons, is it better to concentrate on one element ie speed or shooting, rather than a hodge podge of the two as above ?



Yeesh, this has been waiting for how long?  Sorry about that, been busy working overtime and going to a bunch of concerts.

I think this list is a solid effort for a beginner list.  You've got shooty, durable troops and some hammers.  Mobility is a problem as you've seen, but you can fit it in without sacrificing bloodcrushers.  Slaaneshi Heralds and Flesh Hounds/Seekers, while not as efficient as Fiends, work just fine in the role they're needed for: catching the enemy and holding him in place for your Crushers, opening up transports and catching wayward enemies. 

The big stinker is the Lord of Change.  It's an awesome model, but it's just too expensive for a mediocre MC and only 1 bolt.  Ditching it frees up points for 3 Sheralds or 2 decent sized units of doggies or Seekers.  If you need more points, you can lose a unit of PBs and still be fine.

Moving forward, you may want to consider Bloodletters over Bloodcrushers.  Bloodletters cost less than half as much and are just as nasty, if not moreso in assault on top of being a scoring unit and not directly competing with Fiends.  They are fragile, but if you have Fiends zipping around it's less of an issue.

Speed and shooting are both important and aren't mutually exclusive.  Check out my list.  It's got speed and shooty in good numbers across multiple units.  It's set up so each wave is exclusively shooty or speedy so each presents a credible threat and I can change up depending on the opposition.  Flexibility, wherever you can get it, is very important.

Hope that helps.


Raptor1313 said...

I have to concur with the assessment of the Lord of Change.

He's 'meh' in combat and shoots poorly. If you really want a shooty HQ, get a Herald of Tzeentch on Jetbike with Bolt and Gaze, the ability that lets you shoot both, and then consider the power weapon for tarpit duties against lighter troops in a pinch. You get TWO of these for the price of one Lord of Meh with Wings.

I've honestly not had a hell of a lot of luck with the Tzeentch princes. They're ok at shooting, but the T5/4+ is 'eh', and buying the 3+ armor just drives the price up more. They're only ok at assault, too, but the 'eh' factor really comes into play against anything S4+ coming en masse. You just don't have the save or toughness to weather that for long, even with four wounds.

Plaguebearers are a solid core, but the advice of Bloodletters is fairly solid, since they ARE capable of knocking great chunks out of the enemy.AND don't fight for Elites slots that want to bring fast stuff.

Brent said...

I play 4 Tzeralds,3 Fiends, 4 troops (Nurgle and Tzeentch), and 3 DP's of Tzeentch.

As a matter of fact, I'm writing this from BoLSCon right before the last round!

I'm up in the top 3rd or 4th or so, after running into stiff competition, so I'm pretty happy.

With the DP's, I use all three - Bolt, Gaze, Breath... I can almost always use two/turn, and that really helps.


Chumbalaya said...

DPs are relatively fragile, but only have 1 less wound than a Tzerald. Massed fire can hurt, which is why you'd bring 3 of them along with a good number of Tzeralds and Fiends. Overload the enemy with medium S multi-wounders.

Bartali said...

Thanks for posting this up Chumbalaya.

I've changed the list (again !) since I emailed you, and it's sort of more in-line with some of your suggestions.

Lord of Change

Fiendsx6 w/Might
Fiendsx6 w/Might

Plauge Bearersx5
Plauge Bearersx5
Plauge Bearersx5

Daemon Prince w/MoT, Bolt, Gaze
Daemon Prince w/MoT, Bolt, Gaze
Daemon Prince w/MoT, Bolt, Gaze

I can see the flaws with the LoC and DP's, but what they hopefully bring is a bit of duality - a bit shooty and a bit assaulty.

LoC is going to stay for little while - I'm too far gone with pinning it and supergluing my fingers together to change now ;) Changing to Sleralds or Tzeralds is definitely something for the future though. Daemon cav in particular looks interesting.

On a side note, what's the best method for attaching a LoC's wings ? I've pinned and superglued but I'm half expecting them to fall of at any moment

Chumbalaya said...

I've seen somebody try putting a LoC together and I'll tell you that if I had to endure that myself you can bet that I'd be using it every game :P

Latest incarnation looks fine to me. DPs are nice fire support on the cheap and Fiends are always awesome. Adding 1 more unit of Bletters and Fiends is the obvious pick for going up to larger games.

Magnets might be an option for your wing woes, though those big hunks of metal may not be ok with it. Pinning and liquid cement may be the way to go, that and veeery careful storage and transport.

Lemme know how it works out.

Chumbalaya said...

Dislike? T_T