Monday, April 12, 2010

Hybrid Blood Angels

Blood Angels this and Blood Angels that, how about some Blood Angels?

Everyone likes jump packs and fielding 6 fast Predators right?  How about a little of both?  This is my take on the hybrid style BA army.  Hybrid armies work when the infantry bits have boosted resilience so target priority is difficult for your opponent and when the dudes are able to keep up with the tanks.  BA have both in spades, scoring jump pack troops with FNP, melta and FC in addition to fast vehicles everywhere!


HQ
Mephiston

Elites
2x Sanguinary Priests w/ jump packs and melta bombs

Troops
3x Assault Squads - 10 men, 2 meltaguns, Sergeant w/ powerfist and infernus pistol

Fast Attack
3x Baal Predator w/ twin-linked assault cannon turret and heavy bolter sponsons

Heavy Support
3x Predators w/ autocannon turrets and lascannon sponsons

Total - 2000

So check it.  33 FNP jump packers, 1 of which is T6 and 6 AV13 fast tanks with all kinds of dakka.  Preds are here to crack open transports, while the RAS can munch on the occupants while packing melta doom.  Everything in the list can pretty much shrug off anti-infantry firepower, as they require high S weapons to negate FNP or punch through armor.  Obvious exceptions are autocannons, which can hurt Preds but don't do much to RAS, plasma (kills marines, not so much on Preds), and big S8+ pie plates.  If you encounter the former, don't let your side armor get exposed, and for the latter you'll need to grab cover.  Deep Striking is also an option, dropping 3 sets of 2 meltas on some unlucky heads while the other halves can either come along for the ride or split and hide behind Predators.  Mephiston is that extra WTF factor, another tough target that require heavy firepower to bring down.  A pair of Librarians with Lance and Shield give you a lot too, but I just wanted an excuse to run Dracula out there.

Thoughts?

21 comments:

Mobious said...

Jesus Chumb I just wrote this exact list at 1850, just without Mephiston.

Did we just become best friends?

Chumbalaya said...

We weren't already?

<3

Raptor1313 said...

It's bizarre, and I like it.

I think it's a little out there, and that'll work both for and against it. You have some decent ranged firepower (a la the Preds), nastier close-in firepower (the Baals), and a lovely chunk of assault power (a heap of jump-packing FNP bunnies).

About the one thing I'd worry about is taking out tougher melee troops; I worry at what Land Raiders full of TH/SS termies might do (...other than more or less gut any assault marines they managed to touch, but you DO have melta in there).

Seriously, though, I think dealing with longer-ranged, higher-armor tanks might be a little dicey; you've got maybe 4 lascannon hits to go around.

On the other hand, the issue is of course the fact that while you can probably nuke one end of the army (armor or troops) you might have issues with the other.

Any way you cut it, I think it's pretty nasty.

The_King_Elessar said...

:'(

...

Chumbalaya said...

Ooh, Raptor has graced us with his presence. <3 <3 Thanks for your thoughts, I figure if I've got you on my side I did something right.

TH/SS Termies will rip through my RAS for sure, but I doubt they'll have 3 squads to go after me. The Preds gut the support, I lay out a sacrificial melta (I may even combat squad and use DoA), lose a squad, and pounce on the now exposed Termies.

Same deal with any real heavy hitters, Preds go after support elements and gun them down while RAS can take a good bit of damage while dishing out plenty. Plus Mephiston just jumps in for lolz.

I could drop Mephy for 2 normal Librarians sporting Blood Lance, Shield of Sanguinius or Unleash Rage. That would give me a bit more versatility in exchange for my uber beat stick.

Raptor1313 said...

I'd been meaning to follow your blog for some time; I'd just thought I had 'til I finally was like "WHERE ARE MY CHUMBY UPDATES?! oh. I should clikc the name, get the link, and follow...I blame work and alcohol (or lack thereof? I do not know.)

Moving along...

I guess that the one thing that really bugs me is that the only way to rapidly deliver melta is by descent of angels and combat-squadding some sacrifical offerings.

On the other hand, I'll think aloud a minute...

You combat-squad all three RAS, with the fist/priest in one and the meltas in the other. So, we have 3 fellows in reserve.

You have a 75% chance of getting a unit on turn 2, as you've got a re-roll on a 4+. So, you should get 2, maybe three on the good days.

Then, you have a 50% chance of landing on-target, given the re-roll to hit (on the scatter die). then, well, we get into the interesting territory: scattering. Bright side, we can expect to scatter an average of 3-4 inches, with a range of 1-6. An accurate landing is paramount, since we're gambling a chunk of troops (and our melta capability) on landing within 6" and firing.

Now, if you can drop a little over seven inches away from the target, you're in decent shape; you have to slap yourself in b2b but with five guys you CAN land your first shot an inch away from the target and probably keep everyone alive.

Downside, you can also get out of melta range. So, let's say that half your scatters leave you able to place your meltaguns within 6" of the target.

That means that about 75% of the time, you'll land in melta range when you drop.

That's actually not as bad as I'd thought, but you ARE giving these guys up to die on turn two. So much the better if you can trade them for a high-value target.

I'd pobably have to test it and use it a while to get comfortable with it, but it's acutally not THAT unreasonable.

Hmm.

Food for thought, it is.

...I'd also stick with Mephiston just for the OH HOLY SHIT! factor when you tell them it's really a troop-sized MC that can ONLY strike at S10 against vehicles, instead of S6 + 2d6. (I think the penetration is about the same, on average...)

Chumbalaya said...

Thanks for getting all that math out of the way. That's what I figured, I just hadn't gotten around to crunching numbers exactly.

I can sacrifice meltas through DoA to clog up movement lanes, hiding the demi squad behind those Predators if necessary. They should come in turn 2, so that'll leave the Termies stranded at midfield. I could almost accomplish the same thing by squadding and waiting to jump out and fry stuff. Options are good.

Dethtron said...

why is it that when I implied a similar list on YTTH, everyone (by which I mean stelek and ostentacious taak) jumped up to rip my dick off, but everyone is gushing over it when Chumbalaya posts it? Must be because it's your birthday. Must be....

Dethtron said...

Hey double posted. You can delete one of those if you'd like, along with this comment that makes me look stupid for my inability to read instructions. Or you can leave them all up and make me look really stupid <@:)

Dethtron said...

would a 4th post make me appear any smarter?

Chumbalaya said...

Lol, not if I already deleted one :P

I dunno Dethtron, the man himself hasn't commented on the hybrid dealy yet so we don't now what he thinks.

That said, nobody bought the hybrid at first, I had to show my work.

The_King_Elessar said...

Mine will still be better... :p

Chumbalaya said...

But I had it first! A+ I win!

Dethtron said...

Chumbalaya: here is what stelek had to say about my hybrid list idea earlier this week : "Dethtron: Are you drunk again? Those are terrible ideas. lol"

still not convinced that it is a bad idea though....

Chumbalaya said...

I saw that too and I thought it was a good idea. I'll settle for implied consent, so he must think it's awesome.

Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice!

Anonymous said...

Hey Chumb hope you don't mind I took up our conversation from Libraium and reposted here.

My List at 1850 looks like this.

Mephiston

Sanguinary Priest, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs

Sanguinary Priest, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs

10 Assault Marines, 2 Meltas, Power Fist, Inferno Pistols

10 Assault Marines, 2 Meltas, Power Fist, Inferno Pistols

5 Scouts, Missile Launcher, 4 Sniper Rifles, 4 Cammo Cloaks (no wasted cammo for the Sarg, saves 3pts)

5 Scouts, Missile Launcher, 4 Sniper Rifles, 4 Cammo Cloaks (no wasted cammo for the Sarg, saves 3pts)

Baal Predator, Twin Assault Cannons, 2 Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Hunter Killer Missile

Baal Predator, Twin Assault Cannons, 2 Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Hunter Killer Missile

Predator, Auto Cannon, 2 Las Cannon Sponsons, Hunter Killer Missile

Predator, Auto Cannon, 2 Las Cannon Sponsons, Hunter Killer Missile, Search Light

Predator, Auto Cannon, 2 Las Cannon Sponsons, Hunter Killer Missile

1850pts

If you assume that taking 1 baal away from your list makes it the same point cost as mine. we can compare.

I have 2 scout units that improves the scoring potential for my army. They also add long range fire support and act a bait for counter charges.

My list has a first turn fire potential that is 7 crack missiles higher than yours and 2 missles (with excellent side armor potential) higher every subsiquent turn, even as a 1 turn wonder that is significantly more light-medium anti tank potential and some minor (8 sniper rifles) long range rending/pinning potential as well.

On the other hand I have 50% less assault potential Hopefully my investiment in long range fire power will force the enemy to come to me so my JP marines can counter charge.

My main worry is anti AV 14 and to a lesser extent swarms (orc swarms specifically), which your list does a better job of taking care of.

I am not sure how our lists would do against each other. I belive I would have significantly better odds of winning the fire fight against your armor. If I can gain significant ground in that fight fast enough I might free up enough armor resources to whitle down your Jumpers after they have feasted on my Sniper speed bumps. Over all I would say your list has the advantage heads up, but I like mine better against Mech spam IG, Marines and Eldar.

grant said...

Hey Chumb hope you don't mind me taking our conversation from Libraium to here.

This is my list.

Mephiston

Sanguinary Priest, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs
Sanguinary Priest, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs

10 Assault Marines, 2 Meltas, Power Fist, Inferno Pistols
10 Assault Marines, 2 Meltas, Power Fist, Inferno Pistols

5 Scouts, Missile Launcher, 4 Sniper Rifles, 4 Cammo Cloaks (no wasted cammo for the Sarg, saves 3pts)
5 Scouts, Missile Launcher, 4 Sniper Rifles, 4 Cammo Cloaks (no wasted cammo for the Sarg, saves 3pts)

Baal Predator, Twin Assault Cannons, 2 Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Hunter Killer Missile
Baal Predator, Twin Assault Cannons, 2 Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Hunter Killer Missile

Predator, Auto Cannon, 2 Las Cannon Sponsons, Hunter Killer Missile
Predator, Auto Cannon, 2 Las Cannon Sponsons, Hunter Killer Missile, Search Light
Predator, Auto Cannon, 2 Las Cannon Sponsons, Hunter Killer Missile

1850pts

If you assume that taking 1 baal away from your list makes it the same point cost as mine. we can compare.

I have 2 scout units that improves the scoring potential for my army. They also add long range fire support and act a bait for counter charges.

My list has a first turn fire potential that is 7 crack missiles higher than yours and 2 missles (with excellent side armor potential) higher every subsiquent turn, even as a 1 turn wonder that is significantly more light-medium anti tank potential and some minor (8 sniper rifles) long range rending/pinning potential as well.

On the other hand I have 50% less assault potential... Hopefully my investiment in long range fire power will force the enemy to come to me so my JP marines can counter charge.

My main worry is anti AV 14 and to a lesser extent swarms (orc swarms specifically), which your list does a better job of taking care of.

On the other Hand I think my list is better against Mech IG, Mech Marines, and Mech Eldar, which is to say 70%+ of competitive builds these days.

Chumbalaya said...

Whoops, looks like a double post :P Delete one if you like, but it's no bigs to me.

They do indeed look similar and I don't think the differences change much. I like the extra RAS for the extra bodies or melta squad using DoA. HKs I think are fine, but I'd only really take them if I needed to fill up points.

Instead of one of those Scout squads you can tack on a Typhoon for more missiles that fire every turn.

Eldar have a hard time killing off FNP marines, and 30 of them will cause problems. They'll either have to commit Fire Dragons, link up their Prisms, or spring for Harlies/Banshees. Most of that stuff is also used against tanks, so it's the hybrid action at work. Mech IG can do nasty things to marines, FNP or no, but I can always use DoA to get at important targets, shoot from afar and 15 marines are enough to mop up guardsmen.

I like 'em both really, I just prefer the extra aggressiveness and options that last the whole game to use over the alpha strike.

grant said...

I would probably use 2 MM attack bikes over a Typhoon. The extra Melta is sorely needed in my list and even a range MM is better than Missiles for cracking armor, lastly attack bikes get some synergy out of priests and can even add a tad of CC ability.

Chumbalaya said...

I like Typhoons for their range and versatility as vehicles, but ABs in the FNP bubble would be nasty. Check out Kirby's Blood Rodeo if you haven't already (3++ is the new black, think I sent you a link on LO).

The_King_Elessar said...

I think it's a matter of taste, really. Although, I'm interested by shaving Cloak points, I thought the wording forbade this, but need to check...