Monday, April 26, 2010

SWE-mail




E-mail in.  My comments in Orange


hey there, Hey yourself

 I've been following your blog yay! (together with TKE's and Kirby's boo!) for a while now, ever since I finished munching through everything there was to read on YTTH. "All My ZombYes" isn't quite as informative as NatGeo, but you gotta love those ratings!  I can safely say that both have made my relatively short 40k career a great deal better. Glad I managed to pull the wool over at least one person's eyes ;)  Anyhow, since I enjoy your posts a lot and I dunno how long it'd take to get a response from YTTH Blogger Pro Tip : Don't get e-mailed for the quickness of your response and make them wait for 3 days, stupid knee.  I decided to bounce a SW list off you. Preparing to bounce, bounce units standing by.  I started playing 40k with Daemons Yay for Daemons! but after getting a decent number of them I decided I wanted something more reliable and with a wider variety of builds, so I started with SW. Daemons are very limited, SW is about as wide open and flexible as armies can get.  Good call.  I thought having so many viable builds would be nice, and it is, but I keep changing my mind about what I want to do. Story of my life man.  I even keep jumping around with Dark Angel builds!  Originally the idea was to go with a mostly shooty army, since the Daemons were very assaulty  Contrary to popular stupid, SW can be extremely potent when shooty and I wanted something else, but the more I've thought about it the more I want to have some TWC as well. Can't fault that, TWC rock face.  And I also want psykers. Also awesome.  But wolf lords on TWM are really cool! yeah, back and forth like that. I hear ya, nailing myself to just 1 list is really hard, I don't think I've gone more than 2 games outside of a tournament using the same list.  Anyway, after thinking very hard and making sure I was doing everything that Stelek, you, TKE and Kirby have taught me, I came up with the following. Just want to jump in quickly here, cuz I haven't already done that.  While Stelek, myself, TKE and Kirby all give out superb advice, it's far from definitive.  Take it, chew on it, digest it, and incorporate what bits work for you.  Everybody plays differently, so what works for you may not be what somebody else recommends.  That doesn't make you wrong, nor does it make them, it's just down to preference, style and experience.  So while I would highly recommend reading up on YTTH, 3++, FTW and B&H, as well as a slew of other places, you don't have to follow everything word for word, just incorporate the ideas that appeal to you and build your own experiences to draw from as you go.  Phew, that was a long tangent.  There are a few things I'm not quite happy with, but I also don't quite know how to fix them. Anyway, the list is as follows:


Rune Priest, Living Lightning, Murderous Hurricane
Chooser of the Slain
110
 

Rune Priest, Living Lightning, Storm Caller
100

5 Wolf Guard
3 Powerfists & combi-melta (one in each GH squad)
1 Terminator Armour w/ Cyclone launcher (in one LF squad or alone)
naked WG in LF squad
210

8 grey hunters
meltagun
wolf standard
rhino
170

8 grey hunters
meltagun
wolf standard
rhino
170

9 grey hunters
meltagun
wolf standard
rhino
185

4 Thunderwolf Cavalry
1 Power Fist
1 Melta Bombs
1 Storm Shield
260

Land Speeder
Multi Melta
70

Land Speeder
Multi Melta
70

6 Long Fangs
5 Missile Launchers
Razorback w/LasPlas
215

6 Long Fangs
5 Missile Launchers
Razorback w/LasPlas
215

6 Long Fangs
5 Missile Launchers
Razorback w/LasPlas
215

Total: 1990

So, the idea here was to get enough troops while not spending a silly amount of points on them, having decent long range support and some fast MM stuff, and finally including a nice CC monster unit while avoiding spending so much in it that it becomes a death star unit. The Razorbacks on the fangs were put there to hopefully help the rhinos get to where they need to go and add some more mid/long range fure support. All in all this list has 17 Missile launchers, 2 MMs, 2 living lightnings, 3 plasma guns and 3 LCs, plus the bolters and meltaguns from the GHs. Now, I see a couple possible problems with the list, but no easy solution as far as I can see. First, I'm worried about the number of AV. with all the S6 and 7 going around, I'm worried the 3 RBs and the 2 Speeders may not be enough distraction to let the rhinos survive, although I tried to mitigate that by giving one of the priests storm caller. Secondly, I think a little more anti-horde may be in order. This should be more easy to fix, I could replace meltaguns or combi meltas with flamers, however I really would not like to rely on the 2 speeders as only melta source. Perhaps the 2 heavy flamers and the 17 launchers are enough for that, not sure though. Third problem I can potentially see is that there's only one unit of TWC, which can make my opponents target priority easier. however as I said I don't want the TWC as a lynchpin, but rather as a nice little unit that can go around putting S10 fists on stuff. I suppose I could get rid of some stuff and make 2 cheaper units of TWC, but I'm unconvinced that it would be a better choice. Is there any hopes for running one unit of TWC only?


I'm gonna hit this all at once, just because I find individual unit responses feel like I'm looking at everything in a vacuum when it should be considered as an entire cohesive army.

I think this army looks pretty good.  You have good firepower at range, good mobile Troops, a big beef unit, and some mobile support.  That said, I might do things a bit differently.



You have 3 Rhinos loaded up with GH, WG and the odd Rune Priest.  As a core, that's not bad at all.  GH are cheap and effective at medium range as well as up close.  I don't know if I'm sold on the Wolf Banner for the points, Mark of the Wulfen gives you more direct damage dealing ability plus another way to threaten Dreads/MCs.  


Here's where your first big choice come up.  The Rune Priests are riding along, but they want to be at range (or just moving 6") to make the most of Living Lightning or Murderous Hurricane.  The GH, WG and TWC all want to get up close to make the most of their combat ability, bolters and special weapons.  There's a disconnect here.  Storm Caller is great for Rhino-mounted RPs, as is Thunderclap or Tempest's Wrath.  They're useful because they support the Rhino unit you're riding with.  The choice here is, what am I doing with the RP?   They can be good autocannon platforms to nail transports, but you have to sit back, or go slower, which conflicts with your melta/PF.  They can also be great support.  I don't think you need 2 RP, you can fit in that extra firepower elsewhere and 1 runic weapon is adequate defense.


Now, you have 3 solid Troops choices, mostly aimed at midfield presence and support for the TWC and real assault units.  You may want to consider a cheap Razorback unit to hold your home objectives, but Rhinos are fast enough that it shouldn't be a big problem.


Long Fangs put out impressive firepower and support your forward units well.  I like these.  Razorbacks aren't necessary, but they give you more dakka at range and more targets on the board.  You can also use them early on as a shield for your Rhinos as extra protection.


Now, you have good support fire, a good chunk of mobile scoring units, but what's missing?  GH are handy, but they aren't exactly l33t when it comes to assault.  Enter TWC.  They are mobile, tough, and rock face in HtH.  You also want Speeders for the melta, which is a good idea.


Consider this.  TWC can pretty much handle assaults all their own, but you don't want to sacrifice melta.  Grey Hunters can field melta, but only in big enough squads.  10 men loses your WG, but when you have TWC you don't need them as much.  GH go from main line flex unit to melta bunker and mop up assault, not bad eh?  Meltas pop armor, but so do an ungodly number of S5 rending or S10 attacks.  Now, you have more melta, so you can drop speeders for TWC.  Flamers kill hordes, but so do 6 S5 rending attacks each :P  If you want to keep the WG and Speeders, you can go for Iron Priests on TWMs.  You don't get as many, but you can add in cyberwolves to boost body count and give you more cav units.  To afford more cav, you can either drop WG or the Long Fangs' Razorbacks.  3 Rhinos may not look like much, but with smoke and TWC running around, they could last longer.


Cav can hide behind your Rhinos for cover, so you can absorb lots of fire. 


So, your army could look like this:
Rune Priest w/ Chooser, Living Lightning, Tempest's Fury
2x Iron Priest w/ Thunderwolf, 3 cyberwolves, Wolf Tooth Necklace
3x 10 Grey Hunters, 2 meltas, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino
4 Thunderwolves, powerfist, storm shield, melta bombs
2x Multi-melta, Heavy Flamer Speeders
3x 5 Long Fangs, 4 Missiles, Lascannon/Twin-Linked Plasma Gun Razorback


5 points spare to do whatever.  Drop melta bombs on the TWC (just give 1 model a bolter for wound allocation) and you can give your Priest Saga of the Beastslayer or upgrade a powerfist to Thunder Hammer.


Yes, it's a hybrid.  Suck it Kirby :P


So, you lose out on the Wolf Guard, but make it up with 2 Iron Priests ready to mete out ass-kicking in the name of the Allfather.  Plus, should one of your tanks get dinged up, they can even try and fix it :P  That's 3 threatening cav units to munch on people, 3 units of GH to serve as melta bunkers, scoring units, and anti-infantry support should you need it.  Speeders move around as needed and stay flexible and tasty.  You lose a bit of long range, namely 5 missile shots, but having more damage dealers at midfield.  You can also drop the Speeders and Iron Priests to bring 3 units of 3 TWC (1 powerfist, 1 bolter, 1 normal) and a Wolf Lord of pwnage.  No multi-melta, but a lot more potent assault elements.  It's an option to consider.


Like I said, I think it looks plenty good as is, but based on my experiences and love of all things giant doggies can do, I'd tweak it a bit. 


right, I'm done with the wall of text now, I hope it wasn't _too_ long. I paid you back with my own wall'o'text, so we're even ;)

Looking forward to hearing what you think, and thanks in advance for any help,

Iggy


Happy to help, hope you find any of this useful.

7 comments:

Kirby said...

Why wasn't I emailed!? Anger!

Sticking with Iggy's (who's Iggy btw? Why have I not met this Iggy? I feel upset) original list I think you did a bang-up job though saying what is on 3++ isn't definitive is just rude. Of course it is. My way or I'll drop a rock on your head in Smash Bros. Literally =D.

Furthermore, I have built Hybrid SW as a middle point between my Pure and Mech as I build up my TWC numbers (currently at 0!). Don't pick on me:(.

Not sure if all the smart-ass comments helped though. As much as I enjoy them (and do them on blog. particularly in these enjoyable thingos that I'm doing now) I think to the outside reader they detract from the overall content.

Forty Three said...

hey, Iggy here. I go around posting under the name 'Forty Three' but I thought since I was sending an email I should use my actual name. Thanks for the help, a lot to consider, though I'm happy it wasn't complete trash at least.

Kirby, I spent like three hours trying to decide who to write to and considering whether just writing everyone would look too desperate =( next time I'll write Pink.

Chumbalaya said...

Pink is for girls, everyone love Blackjack & Hookers!

This is my first snowmobile, so lemme know if it's too distracting or stupid and I'll go back to normal format :P

The_King_Elessar said...

Well, I'm glad you didn't email me, because I am not as solid to ask on Wolves as the other two. Needs MOAR practice, me.

The_King_Elessar said...

Still, it's nice to be loved.

Chumbalaya said...

<3

Dethtron said...

Chumby you snowmobiled the hell out of that. well met good sir <3


sunkessi- a variety of citrus fruit used in the production various juices.